Carefree Truth

Issue #343, September 19, 2014

 

 

 

Jim Van Allen asked how many parking spaces would be provided by the Andre parcel, should the Town purchase it.  Gary Neiss replied that surface parking, depending on the configuration, could provide 60-80 spaces.  If a structure is built that amount would increase, depending on the design. 

 

 

 

Mayor David Schwan said there is currently enough parking for a community center that would include the Desert Foothills Theater (DFT).  DFT has a volunteer architect who is working on preliminary drawings that would include theater space, a room for set construction, dressing rooms and showers,  classrooms, and a Council chamber that could also be utilized for lectures.  All the parts would be multi-purpose.  DFT would not just be putting on weekend evening performances.  They anticipate morning through evening activities all week including lectures, movies, and summer camps,. It would be a community center based around the performing arts.  Approval from the Foothills Community Foundation (FCF) board, the DFT board, and the Carefree Council is required in order for the project to begin in earnest.  It is still in the discussion stage, with no details yet as to size and cost.  Vice Mayor Les Peterson added that ASU stated they are 3-4 years out.  DFT could proceed much sooner.

 

 

 

A meeting was held with ASU, and they were asked to provide a presentation schedule.  They were not ready to commit to one.  ASU has a long range plan to go into other areas, and Carefree is a new element not included in that plan, but they felt they could participate in a performing arts platform on a one-off basis more readily.  ASU and Musicfest are both potential additional users of a Carefree Community Center. 

 

 

 

Councilman Mike Farrar requested the equity amount and numbers supporting Council chamber ownership.  The Mayor answered that it was a pertinent question but it is too soon to know.  National Bank of Arizona, which financed the 8 Sundial Circle building, is willing to provide financing, but that level of detail has not yet been reached.  There are "many balls in the air".  Vice Mayor Peterson said there could be an approximately 20% savings if the Council chamber was built as a component of a larger facility.  

 

 

 

Councilman John Crane said the FCF had provided numbers of how many people it expects to attract by the 5 year mark. Mayor Schwan said the number was significantly higher than that provided by the Phoenix Art Museum, which said it anticipated bringing in about 10% of the numbers to a Carefree satellite that it sees in its downtown location.  The current edition of Images AZ magazine has an article on DFT, should anyone want to see their activities.  While no revenue would be raised through ticket sales, since the FCF/DFT is non-profit organization, the Mayor viewed it as a catalyst, drawing people to town to shop and dine.

 

 

 

Councilwoman Melissa Price said she would love to see a community center, but wanted to present an alternate proposal.  She didn't believe that a Council chambers and a local theater group would bring in significant visitors or shoppers, and doesn't like the idea of debt.  She said the ULI suggested a cooperative venture between the Town and the stakeholders for economic development projects, and asked that development of a community center with the FCF be discontinued at this time.   She feels there are insufficient funds for both that and "connectivity projects throughout town".  She feels that the Town should continue to lease the space at 100 Easy Street.  Mayor Schwan responded that it is too soon to make a final determination.  Experts have been hired, and will look at a community center option.  They may say it is a good idea; they may say it's a bad idea. 

 

 

 

Ms. Price suggested the Town build on the Ed Lewis property, and pointed out that money the had been included in the budget.  The Mayor reminded her the 2 museums that were to go into that building had said no.  "That project is dead."  Ms. Price replied, "It doesn't have to be dead."   Mayor Schwan said he will continue down the path working with the FCF, and Ms. Price said she will continue to go down the other path.  The Mayor responded, "I would say to you that nobody comes to Carefree to see misters, or new drinking fountains, or pretty sidewalks.  They will come to this facility that will bring people into town.  And then we can look at the beautiful stuff you feel is integral."  "That's why we have 7 people on this Council, so we have a diversity of opinion."  Ms. Price answered, "I don't agree."

 

 

 

Mayor Schwan said there are 2 committees looking at different aspects of economic development, and they are not allowed to talk outside of public meetings due to the Open Meeting Law, which makes it more difficult.  Mr. Neiss added that it's a comprehensive process and will get fleshed out with time.  "Tonight's discussion is one piece of a holistic puzzle." Mr. Saltzman encouraged discussions involving different positions, calling it "a good thing".  "That's how we hash it out, and when we're done we'll probably have thought of most of the possibilities and vetted them."  "If using numbers, let's either be right or say we're not sure."  "This is just a cautionary note of, let's not try to sound specific until we're ready to be specific."  

 

 

 

Mr. Farrar asked what the landlord had said if the Town decides to renew the lease.  He pointed out that there are historically low interest rates now, and asked if that would just be kicking the can down the road.  The Mayor said the problem is that the landlord gives different people different information.  Councilman Glenn Miller added that as long as the Town was paying the landlord's mortgage, he wasn't motivated to do anything to improve the building or to get commercial tenants to fill the space.  Mr. Miller imagined the Town out of there and the space opened up, with perhaps a courtyard restaurant that would produce revenue.  He concluded with, "I own a house because I don't want to rent.  I want to have some assets."  Mayor Schwan felt that if, in 2016, money from the Town stopped, it would put pressure on the landlord to do something.  Mr. Farrar said it is a "challenging building", with the Post Office as its only draw.  

Mayor Schwan responded, "I think the Town has to do what's right for the Town", adding that they will continue investigating all the possibilities. 

 

 

 

Vice Mayor Peterson pointed out that, while caution had been advised due to all the cultural facilities competing for business in the Valley, the only performing arts venue north of the 101, Carefree's primary marketing area, is DFT.  Mr. Saltzman felt assured that, "We'll figure it out."                   

 

http://vimeo.com/user18676056/review/106000547/f9e40df0cf

 

 

 

 

When the Council discussion was concluded, the floor was opened to the public.  I approached the podium and said that ex-Councilman Greg Gardner had been cited by various sources as opposing a Carefree community center anchored by DFT, based on his comments at a previous Council meeting.  Because Mr. Gardner's overall viewpoint was unclear, after the meeting I asked him what, exactly, he had been trying to say.  He replied that he had not yet made up his mind whether he was for or against the idea.  As stated in his comments, he had been involved with the possibility of building a multi-faceted cultural center in Carefree during his time serving on the Council, and he realized how many "moving parts" were involved.  He was urging the Town to do stringent due diligence before proceeding.

 

 

 

Next, I asked if the rent was fixed at the current inexpensive rate should the Town choose to extend the lease for 5 years in 2016, and what would happen should the Town continue to rent, rather than build, beyond that 5 year extension.  I pointed out that when the contract for the Court's original leased space in the 100 Easy Street building expired years ago, the rental price per square foot skyrocketed.  This landlord has a track record of vastly increasing the rent once a contract has ended, a factor that must be considered when making a decision.  Mr. Neiss responded that there's an inflationary index, so yes, it will go up.

 

 

 

Ms. Price said even if the rates "skyrocketed", what would that be?  $12 per square foot, $15?  She also stated there is a good record of what Mr. Gardner said in the minutes.  Mayor Schwan said he thought I was trying to say that what Mr. Gardner said and what he meant may have been two different things.  Mr. Saltzman said, "We are getting ahead of ourselves."  "These are discussions."  Mr. Farrar opined that it's great to have discussions. 

 

 

 

The Vice Mayor said, "I'm, I think, as conservative as most are on these kinds of things. I don't want to go into debt."  But he pointed out that there's guaranteed future income and very low interest rates.  "We have to ask ourselves, 'Where are we if we don't do this', or do we have a better alternative?  And if there's a better alternative, I'd like to hear it."  Mr. Salzman reminded everyone, "But that would be a question for a later date.  We don't have any of this nailed down yet."  Ms. Price asked when this would be discussed again.  Mayor Schwan replied, "When there's something to discuss." Ms. Price asked when the consultant's report would be submitted.  Mr. Neiss said it was expected to be completed by early March.  Mr. Farrar asked for a lease vs. own breakdown, and commented that there are no tax breaks for depreciation when leasing, saying leasing serves no real advantage.

 

 

 

Next, Jim Van Allen spoke.  He calculated that the current Council chamber room is 1500 square feet, and questioned the need for 5000 square feet.  He realized the requirement for restrooms and storage, but didn't think it should be 4 times the size.

 

 

 

He applauded Ed Lewis and what he had been through, saying Mr. Lewis had a big investment in the land for years, and that he had been very successful in Keirland.  Mr. Van Allen hoped Mr. Lewis could find financing for his new facility, and wished him success.  "I think the Town should be behind him every inch of the way, except financially.  I don't think it's the Town's responsibility or challenge to tell all of the rest of these building owners, Harry, Rod, all of them, 'We're gonna give this guy all of this'.  We've already given him a couple of waivers; now he wants to change the parking, maybe.  That's just not the way the Town ought to be run, and I think you gotta say to Ed, 'Ed, good luck. How can we help?  But get out of our pockets."

 

 

 

Mayor Schwan thanked the public for their comments.               

 

http://vimeo.com/user18676056/review/106027832/faa19b9f62

 

 

Lyn Hitchon

 

 

 

Prepared by Carefree Truth

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